The following interview is a conversation we had with Francesco Volpe, Founder of Renaissance, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $30M Raised to Build the Future of Nuclear Fusion Technology
Brett
Welcome to Category Visionaries, the show dedicated to exploring exciting visions for the future from the founders who are on the front lines building it. In each episode, we’ll speak with a visionary Founder who’s building a new category or reimagining an existing one. We’ll learn about the problem they solve, how their technology works, and unpack their vision for the future. I’m your host, Brett Stapper, CEO of Front Lines Media. Now let’s dive right into today’s episode. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Category Visionaries. Today we’re speaking with Francesco Volpe, Founder of Renaissance Fusion, a nuclear fusion startup that’s raised over 30 million in funding. Francesco, how are you?
Francesco Volpe
Very good, thank you. Brett, how are you?
Brett
I’m doing great. Super excited to have you here and I appreciate you joining Friday evening, your time over there in France. So really appreciate you being here. Let’s go ahead and jump right in. What does Renaissance Fusion do exactly?
Francesco Volpe
Fusion builds small stars on Earth in the form of big donuts called stellaride or synjragon by means of very powerful magnets utilizing superconductors of new generation. And it coats these reactors by means of suspended liquid metals. So there is a lot of unpacking to do here. If you want, I can elaborate a little bit. So we do nuclear fusion, which is the energy of the stars. It means that we don’t split big nuclei like uranium, we rather fuse together small nuclei like hydrogen, and we just produce helium and neutrons and a lot of energy. This is how stars work. We recreate this process on Earth in some machines that are shaped like donuts. And, you know, the stars, like the sun, benefit from their huge gravitational pull. Here on Earth, we cannot do that.
Francesco Volpe
So what we do is we replace those gravitational forces with magnetic forces generated by very powerful magnets. So these are magnets based on high temperature superconductors, a relatively new material, very exciting material. And the third aspect, so together with the accelerators and these high temperature superconductors, the third technological pillar of what we do is liquid metals. As I said, because nuclear fusion is nuclear indeed. We don’t have to fear that. That’s not adjective to fear. Radioactivity is the issue. So to minimize reactivity of the fusion reactor, we coat the inside of the reactor with a thick layer of liquid metal. Imagine a layer of molten metal hanging from the ceiling, the walls and the floor of the room where you’re in right now. And imagine this to flow and stops all the neutrons and carry away.
Francesco Volpe
So this is what we’re realizing in Renaissance Fusion, minimizing the reactivity, minimizing maintenance and therefore cost, and maximizing public acceptance.
Brett
Now, I want to ask some kind of high level questions here and yeah, I’m coming at this as an American who reads some news articles every now and then, as I have it or as I understand it, France has been very forward looking when it comes to your use of nuclear energy. I believe France is completely energy independent, or mostly energy independent, whereas Germany went down a different path and they shut down all of their nuclear reactors and they have no more nuclear energy. Is that an accurate statement there?
Francesco Volpe
Yeah, it’s a really accurate statement. France relies for 70, 75% of its electricity needs on nuclear and it is indeed energy independent. It is in fact an exporter of energy and including electricity. Whereas Germany now, for instance, has a different stance and it is a net importer of energy and electricity. Yeah, so your statement is correct.
Brett
What’s your take on that? You know, France, Germany, obviously different countries, different cultures, but somewhat close to one another. Why do you think there’s such a difference in policy and decision making when it comes to the use of nuclear energy?
Francesco Volpe
Germans are historically afraid or opposed to nuclear. They have strong environmental movement. But I would make a distinction between old school environmentalists and modern, more open minded environmentalists. I consider myself an environmentalist, for instance, and at the same time I am pro nuclear, not only for future, but also proficient. So for historical reasons, after World War II in Germany, the green movement, but again, old school green movement got great consent, many votes. But again with the 90 nuclear stance, which in reality, in my opinion has nothing to do with environmentalism. In fact, nuclear energy is one of the cleanest form of energy.
Francesco Volpe
On the other hand, in France there were political decisions made in the 70s and 80s in which they decided, okay, we want indeed energy sovereignty, energy independence, so we’ll invest massively on the nuclear industry and we will generate power from power plants in France, nuclear based power plants in France, instead of importing from abroad. And so it was a decision made from the top, made by the President and other politicians. And here we are 40 years later with several nuclear power plants in France still operating and in fact exporting, not only supplying internal needs, but also exporting electricity.
Brett
What will it take to, you know, shift this narrative that is out there about nuclear? You know, in the US I think that very much does exist. I see that being debated a lot as well. You know, people are scared of this stuff, which is like deep rooted anxiety. You know, I was reading something the other day I’ll probably get some of these numbers wrong. But it was an eye opening statistic and it said if you go back to, you know, like the Cold War era in the United states, something like 50% of Americans believed that the way they would die was by a nuclear bomb, which is just, you know, staggering. Maybe I’ll have the numbers a little bit off, but it was like very high like that. How do you shift that narrative? How do you educate the market?
Brett
Like, how do you help when you’re up against people who, you know, really believe that it’s a deadly risk for them?
Francesco Volpe
Yeah, I was recently in Hiroshima in what you just described reminds me of the public imagination in a place like Hiroshima, which was obviously affected deeply. Violent use of nuclear energy of course makes me think. But we work on the Pacific uses of nuclear energy, whether fusion or fission. So yes, when I see these prejudices against nuclear power plants, I immediately try to make a distinction between weapons and power plants. That’s the very first thing to do. And also there are power plants and power plants within fission itself. There are systems which are intrinsically safe and you don’t have to fear an explosion on ag like accident or puzzle. And even better, fusion is even safer. There is no risk of chain reaction, no risk of melting of the core. A fusion reactor can be turned off literally in seconds. It’s extremely safe.
Francesco Volpe
So there’s a lot of pedagogy to do, a lot of explaining making these things accessible. As you said, it’s a deep rooted fear, but there is a high irrational component to that and just a problem of disinformation and maybe some scars from the past in history. The best thing to do is just explain, be clear, as clear as possible. And actually very quickly people figure out, understand what we are doing and they like it, they appreciate it and they appreciate that we are trying to do it safely, including air, renaissance, transfusion. Actually, we take this aspect super seriously. And you know, one of our three technologies, the liquid metals is precisely dedicated to that is precisely focused on maximizing public acceptance. We understand that the public is afraid, so we want to make it comfortable.
Francesco Volpe
So if the public will be scared of nuclear fusion and will not use it, why working on it. So you know, between metals we minimize reactivity and it’s a win. It’s abundant power and accepted by the public.
Brett
Now let’s talk a little bit about the go to market strategy. So I’m very familiar with the go to market strategies of enterprise software companies. Obviously this is deep tech. This is very different. Go to market. What’s the go to market strategy look like and how has that evolved since launching and founding the company?
Francesco Volpe
Our go to market strategy is two prong. So we are a fusion company, but at the same time we are also a manufacturer of superconductors. And this allows to generate revenues in the short term to recreate a star on Earth, or I would rather say a superstar because it’s even denser and hotter than a star. But to make it Earth, as I said, you cannot use the gravitational pull of the sun. You need levitation by very powerful magnets. And these magnets are based on superconducting materials. And these materials and the magnets built with these materials can be commercialized in other markets. These markets are ready now and there is a huge demand for these materials now. In fact, there is a mismatch by a factor of two between supply and demand. So our go to market strategy is on the way to fusion.
Francesco Volpe
In the early2030s, we are going to commercialize already next year these high temperature superconductors or hts to fusion and non fusion clients. By fusion clients, I mean other fusion startups or fusion research labs or universities. By non fusion markets, I mean, for instance, wind energy, electricity transmission, medical imaging, in all these sectors, they need again powerful magnets and they need these materials to generate such magnetic fields. So we’re going to sell these materials to them.
Brett
Makes a lot of sense.
Francesco Volpe
And you were asking how it changed, by the way. It has in fact been our strategy ever since starting. So fusion is this problem of being very capital intensive. It is a fantastic idea and very soon a fantastic reality. But also it is capital intensive. So if you want to do, let’s say solar energy, you start proving your technology on a small photovoltaic panel, make it better and better, and then start making larger and larger panels and then eventually you make a full power plant. Right. Solar energy can be scaled from small to large. Fusion is scalable in the sense that it works. It can be scaled to larger and larger power plants. And efficiency improves dramatically as you go to larger and larger power plants. And larger in the sense of power, by the way.
Francesco Volpe
But the problem is that there is a sort of minimum entry barrier below that size. It is not convenient to make a fusion power plant. And so that minimum investment is of the order of 1 or 2 billions. So if you want to launch a photovoltaic business, you can start with few thousand dollars. If you want to launch a fusion business, your very first reactor with cost of the order of 2 billions. And so you have to find ways of generating revenues before you get to that point, before you get your minimum viable fusion product. And so that’s why superconductors have always been part of the strategy.
Brett
Talk to us about fundraising. You know, as we mentioned there in the intro, over 30 million raised to date. What have you learned from this journey and what’s it been like for you?
Francesco Volpe
Yes, we have raised over 30 millions. And actually we are in the middle of another fundraise, so that number very soon been bigger, much bigger. But yeah, we raised over 30 millions, roughly 2/3 from private investors and one third from government grants. We have learned that the wind for fusion has changed. So when I started in this field 20 years ago, it was considered research topic for researchers. So it was only supported by grants. Commercial tuition has come finally, and investors are very supportive. They are placing more diversified bets compared to government programs. So government programs have been converging more and more towards one or two large projects. Instead, private investors decided to play diversity, to place diversified bets on several approaches in several countries. And this has been refreshing for me. What have I learned specifically?
Francesco Volpe
Well, similar to what we do with the public. So educate, explain, make your work accessible, Address prejudices and fears. So similarly with investors, there is a learning curve, so to say, learning how to speak to investors and how to, for instance, explain the risks very clearly, but also motivate why we’re taking certain risks in exchange for others. So to make a specific example for Renaissance Fusion, these devices, looking like donuts, called stellarators, tend to be very complicated. And we have a very innovative way to simplify them, which is a bit unusual, a bit unorthodox. Is new, like all new things, it presents a little bit of risks from the technical point of view. But we are very careful at explaining why we’re taking this beaten path and why we’re doing things differently.
Francesco Volpe
And we explain these small risks are taking now is for the greater good. Later we will take lower commercial risk. Later down the road there would be a better product market fit later down the road and we would be more profitable. So it’s all about communication, about clarity and about aligning what they want and what we want. At the end of the day, they want a return on the investment. And some of them, they also want to have an impact. And yes, we also want to have an impact. Indeed, we want to the energy of the future.
Brett
You know, somehow we’re already almost done with 2024. I don’t know about you, but for me this year has gone by very fast. If we think ahead to 2025, what are some of your top priorities for the year?
Francesco Volpe
Yes. So for 2025, our top priorities, they are mostly technological priorities. So big technological milestones that we will realize in 2025. So we will produce our first samples of these superconducting material, high temperature superconductor or HTS, by mid 25 and scale it to large surfaces. So full specifications by the end of 25. We have another milestone in the area of liquid metals. That material to, you know, absorb the neutrons and minimize reactivity, which we already demonstrated by the way. But there is an important upgrade to go to high temperature. So we will have a hot liquid metal flowing inside the fusion reactor as opposed to a room temperature liquid metal. And that presents a number of challenges, but exciting challenges to tackle in 2020.
Francesco Volpe
And then last but not least, another important milestone awaiting us and exciting us is we are going to build a tabletop fusion reactor or a fusion device, I should say with copper as opposed to superconductors, just to make a quick, cheap, small demonstrator. We will generate the magnetic field that eventually we will need in the large fusion reactor. So it will be literally like tabletop device. But again, improving magnetic field geometry needed for the fusion reactor.
Brett
Final question for you. Let’s zoom out. Big picture here. Five, ten years into the future, what’s the big picture vision that you’re building?
Francesco Volpe
Oh well, that’s a really exciting question. So in five years from now, Renaissance Fusion and other startups, we are not the only one, there’s a full movement working on this subject. So in five years, Renaissance Fusion and other startups will have built their first fusion reactor. And they will have achieved what we call two greater than one in jargon, which just means more heat out of fission reactor than heat inside the fission reactor. So it’s a thermal energy source. You produce heat not by chemical reactions, so not by burning coal, but by a nuclear reaction, by using hydrogen. But you produce heat at the end of the day. And so in five years, there will be fusion devices producing net heat.
Francesco Volpe
That would be an exciting milestone and we want to be one of the first two or three startups to achieve that goal in five years. In 10 years, we have this technology uniquely posed to win the more important race, which is the race to net electricity. So it’s not sufficient to just produce net heat. There will be some electricity reactor at the input and the output. At the end of the day, we want to reduce net electricity, not just net. He and the specific type of donut we’re working on, well suited to achieve that result in less than 10 years. So that will be the big result in 10 years from now.
Brett
Amazing. I love the vision. It’s always inspiring to speak with founders who are tackling the hard problems and really going after these big, bold, ambitious plans and using technology to make the world better. So a lot of admiration and respect for you and the team and everything that you’re building. We’re going to wrap here, which is good news for your Friday. We’ll get you out of here on time. Before we wrap. If there are any founders who want to follow along with you, where should we send them?
Francesco Volpe
Well, you can send them to our webpage HTTPs reignfusion.eu or just shoot us an email to contactainfusion.eu and it will reach either me or someone else at Renaissance Fusion. And yeah, happy to be approached by other founders. So to share our stories and inspire each other and give us advice to one another. So please reach out.
Brett
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time.
Francesco Volpe
Thank you, Brett.
Brett
This episode of Category Visionaries is brought to you by Front Lines Media, Silicon Valley’s leading podcast production studio. If you’re a B2B Founder looking for help launching and growing your own podcast, visit frontlines.io podcast. And for the latest episode, search for Category Visionaries on your podcast platform of choice. Thanks for listening and we’ll catch you on the next episode.
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