The following interview is a conversation we had with Mark Lehmkuhle, CEO of Epitel, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $20 Million Raised to Build the Future of Brain Health Monitoring

Brett
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Category Visionaries. Today we’re speaking with Mark Lehmkuhle, CEO & Founder of Epitel, a brain health technology platform that’s raised over 20 million in funding. Mark, welcome to the show. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Thank you for having me. Wonderful to be here. 

Brett
Yeah, no problem. Super excited. Let’s go ahead and jump right in. Can you talk to us about what you’re building there today? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So we’re developing the AI for the detection of central nervous system disorders, starting off with seizures. And we just so happen to have our little wearable EEG sensor. That’s. That’s ours. That’s how we collect the data. It’s meant to be very easy for patients to use attached to the scalp with these stickers. And if you’ve ever seen EEG before, it’s usually these 19 plus wired tethered channels that have to be put on by a trained technician that’s very specific to this task. And it’s read. Bye. A very specific neurologist who’s trained in reviewing brainwaves. And so we’re trying to make that. 

Brett
Easy about, let’s see. Four years ago, I had a seizure. I kind of been up all night. I went up the next day to walk my dog. I was feeling a little bit funny, and I did have a seizure. You know, went through the whole process that hooked my brain up to all these things, did all these tests, and then it came back with nothing. I never really got any answers, but it was a absolutely terrifying process to go through. So I can kind of understand a little bit where this falls. Like, who are. Who are the customers that you’re serving? Is it, you know, people are. Sorry, patients? Is it people like me who had a seizure one time and they’re trying to figure out, like, is something seriously wrong? Is it people who are having them all the time? 

Brett
What does that look like? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, a couple different use cases. So one is in the hospital. So someone comes into the emergency department, they had a spell, you know what was going on. You know, it could have been a seizure. Or. Or grandma comes in with altered mental status, not sure what’s going on with her. Is she having seizures or is it something else? Because most seizures are non convulsive. It’s not like the classic of what you would see on tv of someone convulsing on the ground, although that is a heavy duty manifestation of a seizure. So this use case is really trying to figure out what’s going on right there at the point of care. Very quickly, are they having a seizure? Yes. No. Okay, let’s move on to something else now, outside of the hospital, similar to your case, we’re trying to see what’s really going on. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
And these are rare events, but the gold standard is like a three day. You probably had a three day eeg where you’ve got all the electrodes on there. You’ve got a wrap of gauze around your head. It’s coming down to an old school recorder that looks like a vhs tape deck, and you got to wear that for three days. And you can’t shower or anything like that. But your chances of actually capturing an event, like in your case, is very low. But recording just a little bit longer drastically improves your probability of capturing these events, so that if you had this spell again, we would know what’s going on. Now, I think it’s also important to distinguish that seizures are common. One in ten people are going to have a seizure in their lifetime. That doesn’t mean that you have epilepsy. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
There’s many things that can cause seizures, and they can be isolated events, but something’s causing them. And so we’re really going after seizures and not specifically epilepsy. Although epilepsy is a seizure disorder that affects quite a few people, 3.4 million in the US. And to put that into perspective, the number of people with epilepsy is twice the number of people living with type one diabetes. Wow. 

Brett
Actual definition of epilepsy. Kind of vague. Like, I remember my whole story was I was sitting in the doctor’s office. They put me in the room. The results were sitting on the computer. So I immediately went to the computer and it came back, no problem, no problem. The doctor comes in and he’s like, Brett, you do have epilepsy, because this has happened two times in your life. So that just fit the definition, I guess, of epilepsy. Is that true? Is that, like, the definition of epilepsy is two seizures ever? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So it’s. It’s two seizures that have been unprovoked. In other words, you have no idea what’s causing it. That typically happen longer than 24 hours apart. So that’s tough, because if those events happened with a long period of time between them, it may or may not be. 

Brett
We’ll have to save that for another episode. We can bring you on to try to diagnose me, take us back to the founding of the company, because I know there’s a long story there. Unlike a lot of the startups that we speak to, you didn’t just start a couple of years ago. You’ve been at this for a long time. So take us back to 2008 and the founding of the company. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah. So I went to grad school at the University of Utah. We live. We’re headquartered in Salt Lake. And my interest is in CN’s disorders and epilepsy and things like that. So I have a big background in there. And it just so happens that Utah is unique. And for that past 35 plus years, they’ve had a program through the National Institutes of Health that used to be called the anticonvulsant screening program. And what that means is that if I’m a pharmaceutical company that might have a novel anti seizure compound, I can send it to the NIH. The NIH codes, it sends it to Utah, and then it goes through a battery of tests to determine, is this something that is worth taking to clinical trials? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
And we realize that people with epilepsy have a problem that we’re trying to solve in that they’re rare events. People with new onset epilepsy may only have, on average, one to two seizures a month if they knew that they were having them. The only way to know is if you were able to record for long periods of time. We’re like, well, right now, you could walk into your neighborhood clinic and walk out with a wireless halter monitor for your heart. But your chances of getting a long term EEG anywhere, even if you go to your neighborhood hospital, is slim to none. So we’re like, well, let’s just make the wireless halter monitor for the brain. And that’s kind of where we started. And my background being in academia, knew how to write some grants. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
And so we started going through the small business innovative research program at the NIH. Started off with a team of four engineers and started growing it from there. 

Brett
When you were starting back in 2008, how long did you think it would take to start commercializing it and have a product that you could really sell? Is this, you know, like, I know you just came out four weeks ago. Is that exactly as planned? Is that way too long? Is it ahead of schedule? How are you thinking about that? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
That’s a great question. So this is a wearable system. You know, it attaches to the scalp below the hairline with these stickers. There’s no goopy gels or anything like that. Very easy to use. And so, from a regulatory perspective, we’re still regulated by the FDA, but we’re kind of on the lower end of their regulatory spectrum, something that’s called a predicate 510. And what that means is that, for us, to be interested by investors. We kind of really needed to get this product through the FDA to show these institutional investors that we could do something like this, because, again, were four engineers. None of us had ever commercialized anything ever before. So if you put yourself into an investor’s shoes, high risk. Right? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So we kind of needed to do that, and we successfully did it on ninds grants and a few grants from the epilepsy foundation that allowed us to develop this technology and take it through the FDA. And it was all non dilutive. The challenge, though, is that these grants aren’t very big, and they take a long time to develop anything on them. So kind of give or take there. 

Brett
What’s the process like to win a grant? I’m sure all of them are probably a little bit different, but if we just have to summarize it, you know, what’s that process look like? And then what advice would you have for founders who want to pursue this as a early funding strategy or early funding source? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great program. It really, as a Founder, allows you to dig in and really think about what you’re developing. You know, who are you developing it for? Why are you developing it? What’s the value proposition? The whole package, you know, very different from academic grants. And the process is there’s three submissions a year, so it’s a little slow, but it’s reviewed by your peers effectively, and it’s pretty rewarding when you get one, because it can take some time to get one. Your chances of getting one are also quite slim. So it makes you really have a. 

Brett
Tight ship for a Founder who wants to pursue it. What’s like, if you could only give them one piece of advice, they’re running by you can only give them one piece of advice. What would that advice be? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
To stick with it. 

Brett
Stick with it? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yep. Yeah. If you truly think you have something innovative, all it takes is time. If you’re willing to put in the time, stick with it, you’ll get there. 

Brett
What was that process like for you as you’re building the technology? You’re an R and D. Where did your time go? I guess, is the question there. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah. So, because the grants don’t really. They’re not very big, and there’s limited to what you could do with them. I did split my time between the university and the company for a very long time and finally left the university in 2017, you know, once we started demonstrating this traction. And so for us, it’s, you know, how do we balance these effectively two jobs. And, you know, our company was literally in an artist colony because that’s the only thing that we could afford. So we’re building medical devices in an art studio in the heat of. The heat doesn’t work very well. The air conditioning didn’t work at all. You know, things like that. So it’s really bootstrapping, if I were to put it into one word. 

Brett
What about the competitive landscape? Is there a giant in this industry that just dominates the space? Is it super fragmented? What does that look like when it comes to competitive alternatives? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, yeah. So I mentioned we have the two different use cases for the kind of the same product. It’s four sensors on the forehead, two on the forehead, two behind the ear. A wirelessly transmit to a smart device. Smart device gets data to the cloud, where we connect a neurologist. Now, on the hospital side, it’s kind of an emerging field that they’re calling rapid response EEG. And there’s a couple of players that have, that are in this field. One is just now angling to go public, which is fantastic. They’ve kind of paved the way for this new technology for which we feel like we have a long term solution. Then if you go onto the ambulatory side, what they call outpatient ambulatory EEG, the gold standard is that three day, wired EEG that I mentioned previously. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
And outside of three days, there really isn’t anything. Our parallel with cardiology is quite remarkable, and I feel like where we are with neurology today is where cardiology was back in 2002. What really makes this system successful once you get outside the hospital is that beyond the three days, no neurologist has the time to review that EEG data, because they’re literally reviewing it beat by beat, going from the very beginning to the very end, looking for these patterns that they’ve been trained to recognize as seizures. That’s where our machine learning AI, detection of seizures, comes into play. And it’s meant to take these weeks and weeks of EEG, where in most cases, nothing’s going on that’s interesting and flag interesting bits of information for a neurologist to then go through. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So now they can quickly go from event to event and say, is my patient experiencing seizures at home? Yes or no? And through the smart device, the patient can actually mark an event, say, okay, this is my typical spell, or, I feel like I’m having this spell. And how does that align with the actual EEG? It’s kind of Greenfield on the outpatient side. But, I mean, the parallels with cardiology and where wireless halter monitors are today is pretty striking to me, and it’s. 

Brett
A totally different product category, but it sounds like levels. I don’t know if you’ve heard of levels, but it’s a continuous glucose monitor. I have one for my jacket here. I have the app, and whenever I eat, whenever I do anything, I’m just updating that, tracking the results. And then you’re reviewing those results now? I review them with chat GPT and have conversations about it. But before it was just me. Is the idea here that it’s continuous? Do you keep it on, like, forever, or is it really just in that testing phase typically, or does it depend on that use, on the use cases there? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yes. Yeah. So where we are right now, everything I’ve described is before someone has been diagnosed with a seizure disorder with epilepsy, where FDA cleared for up to 30 days of continuous use. We currently have an FDA submission to demonstrate that our stickers are biocompatible for chronic use, which means longer than 30 days. Ultimately, what I want to do next with this is for people who have been diagnosed with a seizure disorder, the only way that they know if a drug is working or some other therapy is through self reporting. But I just mentioned that a lot of seizures can occur at night while you’re sleeping. You wouldn’t even know that you’re having it. So self reporting is terrible. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
And what we would like to do is pair this down to a single sensor that really fits behind the ear and looks like a hearing aid. It’s rechargeable, reusable, you can use it whenever you want, and it would count the number of seizures that you’re having. This is all forward thinking here. Alert a parent or a caregiver or a loved one to an ongoing seizure. And these are important because from seizure counting, you know, how do we know that this anti seizure medication is working? Or it’s not uncommon for someone to have great seizure control one medication that have to be taken off that medication, put on a different one simply due to the side effects? And so could we balance seizure control with side effects for a drug that’s working and for real time alerting it’s. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
People with epilepsy have a higher incidence of what’s called sudden, unexplained death. In epilepsy, it’s really kind of a cardiac arrest event where you have a seizure where your face is in the pillow. So we could alert to an ongoing seizure, and if it’s at night, try to rescue that person from such an event and then sticking with seizures again. Ultimately, what we think we can do is create a forecasting system. What’s my probability of having a seizure in the next hour? I want to go to the grocery store. I have a high probability of having a seizure. Maybe I’ll go tomorrow. There’s a chronicity to most people’s seizure events, whether it’s daily, weekly, monthly, or somewhere in between. With long term monitoring, we can then really determine what do those cycles look like for you? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
And we could possibly even adjust medication to match those cycles again. Getting back to the side effects and seizure control thing. 

Brett
Yeah, wow. Super cool. Talk to us about four weeks ago. So, as I mentioned there, four weeks ago, you officially went into market. What did that feel like for you after, what, 15 plus years? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yes. 

Brett
You get it to market. Like, what did you do that night? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Okay. Okay. I mentioned that were trying to model this off of wireless alter monitors. I got to talk to one of the companies back then and ask them, hey, how did you do this? Because we need this clean data set that’s annotated to train our machine learning detection of these seizures, to train our AI. And they said, well, we just purchased 30,000 EKG records that were well annotated. And so, like, great, okay, we’ll do that. And we go and we look and talking to many of these hospitals that have an epilepsy monitoring unit and things like that, and said, hey, do you have records that we could purchase? And, like, no, we don’t have the storage for that. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
You know, after we record it, we enter the report into the electronic health record, and then we just delete the data because we don’t have the storage for it. Like, oh, my God. So now we’re going to have to develop our own data set. And so we spent many years collecting data, again on grants that allowed us to get that clean data set where we used the wired EEG as kind of the ground truth and then trained our machine learning on our sensor data. I forget what that one shows. 

Brett
No worries. It was. How did that feel? I’ll rephrase this, but it’s about, like, the moment. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Oh, getting onto the market. 

Brett
Okay, you want me to re ask that again just so it’s fresh? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Laura, I could just start. 

Brett
Yeah. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
All right, so we’ve got this dataset. We’ve trained our machine learning. We’ve gotten it through the FDA and as software, as a medical device, it’s good to go. But we’ve only ever recorded with these sensors in these very controlled environments in the hospital. And, you know, what I’m telling you is that we want to get this outside the hospital for people so that they can live their lives and have this long term recording. So ultimately we had to run a number of pilots to prove to ourselves that, yeah, it’s good to go both in the hospital and outside the hospital as well. So once we. Once we did that, were able to iterate through our regulatory process until we’re like, okay, this is bomb proof. And now four weeks ago, we’ve just hit the market. It’s something I’ve never done before is sell anything. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So it’s, you know, we hire the team. We’ve got a very limited team because we’re only on our series a at the moment. But it’s super exciting that to see patients using our system and it having a profound effect on their lives. Got a great story if we have time for that. But really what we’re trying to do now is demonstrate with our limited resources. Here’s what we can do in two geographical locations with these very limited resources. Now we’re fundraising again for our series B, what we’re calling our series B, to really then scale this nationally. And so here’s what we can do on a national level. So it’s super exciting and also really scary because I’ve never commercialized anything before. 

Brett
What’s top of mind for you as you’ve geared up for commercializing this technology? Like, what’s keeping you up at night? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, it’s the whole package. We need to demonstrate that doctors want it, they’re buying it, they’re getting reimbursed for it through traditional channels, and they’re rebuying it. And, of course, if their patients are enjoying. Enjoying this much more than a traditional wired EEG. So it’s making sure that all of that happens is what’s keeping me up at night, especially at this point. We’re really trying the spotlights on us to perform, and that’s a different spotlight that I’m used to being under. 

Brett
And are you selling it directly to doctors? Is it to larger health systems? Who are you selling it to? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, there is some overlap. So if it’s an outpatient ambulatory center, we’re selling directly to the neurologist. But oftentimes those neurologists are also working in the hospital, and in the hospital, it’s really. There’s a lot of players. So if it’s the emergency department. Docs, their nurses, ultimately a neurologist is involved who’s reviewing the data. We need to show the value proposition to the hospital itself. So it’s a little bit, there’s more stakeholders for sure on the hospital side, but there is overlap between the two. But in this case, it’s a prescription sold directly to a neurologist who’s prescribing this. 

Brett
Are there any neurologists who see technology like this and they think, like, whoa, whoa, AI, slow down. Like you’re trying to take my job. Does that fear exist when it comes to this market that you’re serving? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yes, I think you’ll see that just about anywhere, especially in healthcare, because we see this. The classic example is in radiology, but at the same time, we can then point to radiology and say, look, this is making the radiologists lives easier so that they can do the work that they really want to do, which is treating patients. Instead of spending, in our case, hours and hours reviewing EEG data where nothing’s going on, let use the AIH to identify those events that you should be looking at, and then you’ll spend more time with your patients rather than reviewing this EEG. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So once we show them that and the fact that we’re not trying to replace EEG, there’s still a traditional EEG, there’s still lots and lots of use cases where you need that full montage, high resolution EEG, and then it’s an easy story to sell. 

Brett
I’ve worked with a company since 2016 called Clarius. They’re in the mobile ultrasound industry. And what you just described is exactly the conversations they’ve had to have. I think it’s evolved a little bit because now they’re selling into markets where they’re not commonly using ultrasound. So that’s been a good shift for them. But I know early on they were dealing with all of those conversations and all of that fear of, hey, this is going to replace me. Why would I buy something that’s just going to replace me? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, it’s a buzzword lately, AI, but it’s been around for a long time. You know, cardiology has been doing this for a very long time. And so I think it’s just top of mind, you know, you see it in the news and it’s creating a bit of a scare that shouldn’t. That it shouldn’t do you get worried. 

Brett
About getting lost in that noise because, like, what with AI, what I see in every industry that exists, there’s talk about how AI is going to disrupt or transform like that’s happening in every industry, every niche industry. Do you ever get worried that someone else is going to be the louder voice? Talk about how AI is going to change everything and you’ll lose that opportunity that you have? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
No, I don’t think so, because we’re a regulated industry. It’s a medical device, and we have to submit these, any changes that we make to the FDA. So it’s not like we’re going rogue and creating this monster that’s going to take over and tell you that you have this disease or that disease. It’s very regulated and very strict and has guardrails built into the system. So, no, I feel like it’s very clean. 

Brett
As you gear up for these go to market efforts and these marketing efforts, what’s the maybe high level marketing program going to look like? I know you mentioned there’s two markets that you’re going to focus on. What else, in terms of marketing strategy is happening. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah. So maybe this is a good transition to where I see us, where I see this technology going. Is that, what’s really exciting for me is I want to see this as you go into your primary care physician’s office for your annual physical, and you’re recording eeg with our system for ten minutes while you do a task. And that becomes kind of like the baseline for your brain health year after year. And then this is where I really see that the AI could be really helpful for people in tracking your brain health over time and saying, is something going wrong? Like, could we detect the symptoms of Alzheimer’s through eeg years before you have any physical symptoms? And in that way, we could have an intervention early on that either slows the progression or even prevents the disease altogether. 

Brett
That’s interesting. So that’s even more like levels than I had thought. I think just in terms of their approach, they were taking these glucose monitors that were worn by people with diabetes, and they said, no, we want this to be for everyone who’s interested in metabolic health, and everyone should be interested in metabolic health. But that was that move that they made. Is that a fair parallel to draw with what you’re describing here for that long term vision and where you see it going? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, right now, you know, cardiology has done this with long term halter monitors. You know, if you think you’re having an arrhythmia or something like that, let’s do this. There’s no reason why you couldn’t do that for neurology as well. You know, there’s. There’s so, like, cardiology, so many diseases of the cardiovascular system, there’s many diseases of the central nervous system that we can really. It’s this long term monitoring that’s the key, combined with AI, to really identify these patterns and these big data sets. And you’ve seen this all over the place. So we’re trying to do this in neurology as well. 

Brett
Is that going to require a lot of education to get people interested in brain health and thinking about brain health? With my levels example there they hammered into the market. They collaborated with a lot of people to say metabolic health is a thing you need to be worried about. Metabolic health. And how they described their marketing program to me was it was 100% education. They just had to go educate the market, create demand, and then fight to capture that demand. Is that similar to what you’re going to have to do here? Are you going to have to educate the market, make them aware that this is something they should even be thinking about on their long list of health issues to be potentially worried about? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
I think, you know, you could look at continuous glucose monitors as an example of, you know, someone who wants to track their health, you know, day in and day out, and it just becomes routine. It’s something that, ideally, you don’t really have to think about. And that’s the direction that we want to go. You know, we want to get rid of the smart device and so that you don’t have to remember to take the smart device around things like that. That’s where we really see the technical barrier. As for patient adoption is that it has to be smooth, it has to be easy, it has to be habit forming. 

Brett
Is there ever a world where this can be direct to consumer or always need to be sold through doctors? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah. So similar continuous glucose monitors. This is a good example. Dexcom just came out with an over the counter continuous glucose monitor system for people who want to monitor their brain health. Maybe they are high risk for a CN’s disorder. Why shouldn’t they be able to monitor their brain health over time? What we’re trying to build is a medical device that can be trusted. And once that trust is there, we feel that opens the door to really making this an over the counter system that people can trust. 

Brett
Let’s talk a little bit about the series a. So over 20 million raised there. What did you learn through that process of raising that series a? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Yeah, you know, at the time when were grant funded, I would say that were getting a lot of bad advice of, oh, you should go through, you know, kind of seed investors, seed stage investors, when really our NIH grants were that seed stage for us. And, you know, I wanted to raise this 20 million, but people were saying, oh, no, you should start off at, you know, one and a half million or 2 million. Like that ultimately was not the right case because with anything that’s regulated, especially in our space, our med tech space, these take quite a long time to develop. And any seed stage investor is just not going to see the return on that investment for a long period of time. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
So it really took our board members to make these warm introductions to the type of investor that can see that long game and has the wherewithal to be able to do that. They’ve done it before. They know what it takes to develop a medical device and they’re in it for the long haul. So it really took finding the right people. There’s a lot of investors out there and a lot of investors in our space too, but just not those who really see the vision and can understand where this could go. 

Brett
Were they investors who invest normally in Medtech, or was it investors who are just used to things taking a while? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
They have experience in medtech for sure, but I should say that one of our investors is primarily a biotech investor that I’m pretty sure were their first medtech investment. So that’s looking more towards. We understand how long it takes to develop and we can see the vision. We also have some what we call strategics that are med tech companies who have invested in us, that have been there, done that, and they see the value proposition, whether it’s specifically for use in the hospital emergency department or for home monitoring, and can see this direction over the counter. So it really just takes the right person. It sounds, it should be intuitive, but it’s difficult to find those people. 

Brett
Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. All right, final question for you. Since we’re almost up on time, let’s zoom out. We’ve talked a little bit about the future, but let’s maybe go out 20 years. I know that’s a big time horizon, but you’ve been at this for a long time, so you’re used to long time horizons. What’s the 20 year vision look like for the company? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Let’s see. Let me think on this for a second. 

Brett
If that’s too long of a time horizon, we can scale it back. Whatever time horizon you want. What’s that big picture vision. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
The big picture vision is for us to really branch out from seizures into other CN’s disorders. I mentioned Alzheimer’s as an example. But could we identify people who are suspected of having a stroke before it becomes an event that we’re all familiar with? Could we differentiate. Keep going on the stroke model. Could we differentiate those who may have a large vessel occlusion versus aneurysm versus a small vessel occlusion right there in the ambulance? Because that would really determine where do we need to go? Because if it’s a large vessel occlusion, you know, only a specialized stroke center can handle that. And if we take them to your neighborhood hospital, all they’re going to have to do is transfer you again. And time is brain, and, you know, getting them the right care as quick as possible is super important. But, yeah, there’s all kinds. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
I’ve got this, like, roadmap that is huge of all the different spaces that we want to go with this technology. And, like a golden retriever, where I get, you know, distracted by everything. But, yeah, long term brain health monitoring. 

Brett
Amazing. I love it. All right, well, we are going to have to wrap here. Before we do, if there’s any founders that are listening in, they want to follow along with your journey for the next 10, 20, 30 years. Where should we send them? Where should they go? 

Mark Lehmkuhle
To epitel.com or on LinkedIn. We are Epitel. 

Brett
Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time. It’s been a lot of fun. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Thank you. Appreciate it. 

Brett
All right. That was awesome, man. You’re a great guest. 

Mark Lehmkuhle
Good. I hope that wasn’t too.