The following interview is a conversation we had with Barr Moses, Co-Founder & CEO of Monte Carlo, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: $230 Million Raised to Build the Data Observability Category
Barr Moses
Thanks for having me.
Brett
No problem. So before we can talk about everything you’re building there at Monte Carlo, could we just start with a quick summary of who you are and a bit more about your background?
Barr Moses
Yes, for sure. So I’m the CEO and co-founder of Monte Carlo, the data observability platform. The best way to think about us is just like App Dynamics, datadog new relic for engineering. We do the same thing for data teams, so we help data teams build reliable data products. I am originally born and raised in Israel, so started my career, israeli Air Force actually, later on moved to California. I’ve been here for over a decade, I guess, worked with data math and analytics throughout my career. Was fortunate prior to Monte Carlo to be part of category creation at Gamesight, which was a lot of fun building the company. And yeah, I’ll keep it brief.
Brett
So one question on the military background there. If you had to choose one big takeaway from your time in the Israeli military, what would it be?
Barr Moses
I mean, I think it’s obviously a very unique experience, right? So I was 18 years old, drafted with many other 18 years old, and you’re given a ton of responsibility. Very early on, I actually worked with data even then, obviously, the definition of what data is and how you work with it, and the term data science wasn’t even a thing back then. But I would say having to deal with challenges, basically what were working on was analyzing data and supplying that for operational teams in the field. And so I think at a very early age, I was half with leading a group of young people to accomplish a mission and a challenge using data. And so very early on sort of was exposed to both the challenges of delivering accurate, reliable data and also of leading teams from a very young age. I had very little training, basically none, really.
Barr Moses
And yet we had to deliver strong analytical solutions in a very short timeline and deadline. And so I learned a lot about camaraderie and team building. I learned a lot about myself, what makes me resilient what I need to do to stay strong and what are the areas where I’m personally vulnerable. And on the professional side, what is important in working with a team together to deliver a strong product?
Brett
Nice. That’s amazing. And you didn’t go into cybersecurity. I think I’ve had probably 20 or 30 M Israel and they all went into cybersecurity.
Barr Moses
That’s right. That’s exactly right.
Brett
Now. What about CEOs? Is there a specific CEO that you really admire? And if so, who is it and what do you admire about them?
Barr Moses
Yeah, great question. I mean, I would say my kind of personal sort of inspiration at a young age. My mom is actually kind of an entrepreneur. She has her own business and so I watched her kind of growing up. It’s funny, my mom, she has kind of her own business. She teaches like meditation and dance and my dad is a physics professor. So I grew up with opposite ends of the spectrum. But definitely entrepreneurship was sort of something that I got exposed to an early age and then in later years, I definitely have kind of appreciation for founding CEOs, built companies from scratch. So really anyone who embarks on that journey, I think the entrepreneurial journey is extremely hard and I have a lot of respect for anyone on it. And I would say creating a category is even harder, I think, because there’s no budget line item for the customer that’s acquiring your solution.
Barr Moses
So it’s basically a product that’s never been built, never been sold, and never been used by customers. And to build a business around that and to build a category, it’s really quite magical and takes various capabilities. Just a couple of folks like I think Edith Harbo had launched darkly. I think there’s kind of an inspiring story there of identifying product market fit and scaling it to thousands of customers in a few short years. I think amid Bendov at Gong, I think this category creation story, what they did for sales team really resonated for me in terms of understanding the audience. You rarely see a B, two B company that does such a great work of marketing to their, like, understanding where their audience is, where their audience hangs out and what their audience cares about. We learned a lot from that. And then the last that comes to mind, obviously, in the data infrastructure space, I think Ali from Databricks has really interesting insights and stories which inspired me in the early days, a lot of them, about making decisions quickly, moving fast.
Barr Moses
And I think we’re seeing this explosion of data infrastructure along with databrick snowflake BigQuery. All of these solutions really kind of have, honestly, unprecedented growth in the last few years. And I think there’s a lot to learn from those businesses.
Brett
Yeah, absolutely. I think all great founders, but especially on the category creation side, gong has just been so fun to watch and they’re so good. And their strategic narrative that they developed and have pushed out the market of say goodbye. What is it exactly? It’s like say goodbye to opinions, hello reality, something catchy like that. They’ve just done such a good job.
Barr Moses
Yes, 100%. I agree with you. I think it’s about understanding your audience very deeply like that. I think there’s a big difference. I think oftentimes it’s easy to market or create content with yourself, with your own company in mind. And so you’re speaking your language. You’re speaking kind of how you’re thinking about the problem. It’s very different to come from that angle versus what is the language that our customers are using? What words do they use to describe their own problem? If you were to ask them about what keeps them up at night, how do they describe that? And I think that kind of ability to capture that in the moment is very powerful.
Brett
And Monte Carlo has done such a great job at that. The first time I heard about Monte Carlo was in summer 2021, and were working with the client on their website Copy, and they sent Monte Carlo as an example, and they said, look at how they explain things. Look at how they frame things. It’s such simple language. This is what we want. This is how we want to communicate. How did Monte Carlo get that right? And how did you get that right? Was it always that clear from the start? Or did you have to learn how to communicate very clearly and in very simple terms like that?
Barr Moses
That’s awesome and hilarious, because we actually took us a long time to get our first website. I think it was maybe a couple of years into the company’s existence. We already had the product, we had customers, we had the full thing where we didn’t have a website. And it was really because were focusing on building a product, making customers happy, and getting customers. And that was our sole focus. I really believe in kind of being extreme in our focus. And the only thing that matters at Monte Carlo now and forever is getting as many customers as possible and making customers as happy as possible. And every single person at Monte Carlo should be working towards one of those two goals. And if not, then we’re doing something wrong. And in the early days, that was way more important than building a website. And so we actually ended up not doing that for a while.
Barr Moses
And then the very first iteration of the website was really sort of the goal of because it’s a new category. So for folks who don’t know, I’ll just give a little bit of context. Monte Carl is pioneering category called data observability. And the idea kind of the pain point of what we’re solving is, and this probably happens to anyone working with data, you wake up at Monday morning, you look at your report or your dashboard, or you just log into your email and you get 100 emails saying, hey, WTF, the data looks wrong. Like someone is just about to use data and something is off, like maybe a report didn’t get updated or the data didn’t arrive on time, or someone made a change somewhere, for some reason the data looks off and you don’t know why. And so we help companies or data teams make sure that they are not blind in this case, so that make sure that data teams are the first to know about data problems.
Barr Moses
They are able to resolve them quickly and actually prevent them from happening. Now, we didn’t invent this pain has been around forever for a really long time. But the idea that there’s actually a solution to this is something novel. And the solution comes from a corollary, from software engineering. So software engineers build reliable, secure, scalable products, and they do that oftentimes using APM solutions, or frameworks, or concepts solutions, such as I mentioned, datadog new relic app dynamics at the time. And the idea is, what if you can bring those concepts to the data teams, to data products and basically implement concepts of software observability to data? And that’s how data observability was born. And so when you think about what our audience thinks or how our audience sort of operates, these are data analysts, data scientists, data engineers, that they wake up in the morning and they’re really upset that their data is wrong, but they’re not necessarily looking up, hey, is there a solution for data observability?
Barr Moses
Because they may not have heard the term yet. And so in the early days, we had to actually think of our website and marketing efforts as really category creation efforts. So it was less around Monte Carlo and more around helping folks understand that there is actually a solution to this, which is something that we really sort of had to really focus on. And I’m thrilled to say several years later that I’m happy to kind of reflect back and see that this category has been created. Data observability is a thing now, but it’s very important to us, kind of to remember as a company that we don’t exist without the category. And so early days, but also today, I personally spent a ton of time with customers, prospects and data people on a daily basis to hear from them what are their pains, what are their problems, and how are they thinking about solving them?
Barr Moses
And so a lot of the work in the first website was to reflect what we heard because the honest truth is like, your customers don’t care about your company, they don’t care about the category, they don’t care about the fact that you’re trying to create a category. They care about their problems. And so focusing on that and narrowing down on that is where we sort of found the truth, if you will.
Brett
Makes a lot of sense. And you guys have really nailed that. Now if we go back to those early days, did you know from day one that this was a category creation play and that you were going to need to create a new category? Or was there ever a stage where you thought this was going to just transform or disrupt a legacy category?
Barr Moses
So my story or my journey, I was at GAINSITE Prior, which actually pioneered the customer success category and actually saw sort of what that looked like, which is very cool experience. I also learned a ton and I left GAINSITE and decided to start my own company and actually worked on a couple of different ideas and kind of tested out different ideas for companies in parallel. And the idea was to see which idea has traction. And that was super helpful time because actually trying out ideas, having conversations with real customers or real prospects, gave me perspective for what idea actually had traction, what idea could be big. And I would literally cold call people and say like, hey, do you have this issue? Hey, is this a problem for you? And some of the ideas that I worked on were terrible and nobody cared about it.
Barr Moses
They would just hang up on the phone and they’re like that they’re calling. But the idea of, hey, the data is wrong, what can I do about this? Or why am I always the last person to hear about this? Why am I hearing from downstream consumers that the data is wrong? And why is it taking me so much time to fix data problems? And my entire team is focused on that. That problem had such a strong pull and such a strong reaction from people. It became clear that there is a huge problem here. And in speaking with hundreds of people, it became clear that this is a problem that exists across industries, across stages. And it also became clear to me that it’s going to be a problem that’s going to be worse over time because people are going to be using data, more data is going to become more critical to companies operations, more critical to companies products.
Barr Moses
And because of that, the accuracy and reliability of data will become even more important. So all that was clear. However, there was no way to describe that today. Maybe this is the most similar or at the time the most similar or sort of close to it was data quality. Data quality didn’t quite capture the extent of the problem and the approach, the solution that were going after. And so at that point, our first question was, is there a real problem to solve here? Yes. Do we think this is a problem that many teams have day and it’ll get worse? Yes. Is there a way to describe the solution today? No. That is where the innovation is. And so following these sort of three observations, we did realize we need to create the category here.
Brett
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Barr Moses
Oh, this is 100% a company wide thing, so I think it’s very hard to create categories, period. And for us, I mentioned Monte Carlo is really kind of the rise of data observability data. I would say it’s following the rise of data infrastructure. So if you look at the last five to ten years I mentioned, there’s a rise of companies like Snowflake, Databricks technologies like BigQuery Redshift, each of them with rumored anywhere between a million and 2 million in revenue. Not a market cap, just revenue. And so that means that data teams are investing a ton in data infrastructure. And now it’s a little bit unresponsible irresponsible to actually not have confidence that data is accurate. And so people, it’s kind of like Monday time now for data teams. Organizations really want to use that data, and not having confidence in it makes it extremely hard to do that.
Barr Moses
And so that is something that’s happening in the market regardless of Monte Carlo and the team at hand. What we did at Monte Carlo from very early day focusing on this, I mean, I personally focus on this a ton. We have an amazing team that Molly Borvick leads and can talk a little bit about her work as well. But then it also is a company wide thing. So I’ll talk about these three things so specifically from my perspective, how I’m spending my time on this category creation is sort of a key focus for me from day one. So I probably do between one and three speaking opportunities per week for the last three and a half years or so since we started Monte Carlo. And those are speaking opportunities on podcasts such as this, conferences, in person, virtual, really sort of various opportunities to kind of discuss data topics.
Barr Moses
We write a lot of content. So actually I wrote our first blog post before we actually officially created the company. And my very first blog post was it was called Rise of Data Downtime. And it was actually a description of what it felt like to experience this pain of, hey, I’m responsible for the data. We’re using Data as a company, but the data is wrong all the time and I’m so frustrated by that and I don’t know what to do. And I was describing real experiences that I had back in 2016 when I was at gameside, responsible for the Data team. So from day one, kind of sharing my experiences, speaking in both my language and customers language and describing the problem, something that I did from back then, and I still spend a ton of time on that. I mean, I would say the work is more around kind of bringing our customers together.
Barr Moses
So I actually spend a lot of time also in small sort of roundtables meeting customers, having them speak to each other about their problems. At the end of the day, it’s kind of about helping them solve problems together. Just kind of examples on what I do. We have our team that Molly leads. She’s amazing, she’s phenomenal. And that varies from interviewing customers, understanding what’s top of mind for them. We oftentimes write about topics that are actually not related to Monte Carlo or data observability, but rather topics that are just top of mind for our customers. I’ll give you an example. Data mesh was a topic that was super top of mind for folks a few years ago, maybe a year and a half ago. And people are like, there’s no resources about the topic and we’re not sure we want to learn more about it.
Barr Moses
And that was an opportunity for us to help give back to the community and write about a topic that was super top of mind. And so that’s just an example for something that we spend time on and with Molly’s team. And then from a company perspective, I mentioned category creation. This product hasn’t existed before. And so our product team is basically building a product that’s completely innovative. There isn’t anything like this that they can look to. We’re drawing corollaries from DevOps and SecOps, or we’re taking concepts that have already been proven for engineering teams, for SRE teams, for SecOps teams, but it’s new in the data field. And so our product team, private engineering team is defining what the product should look like for this category. And our marketing team is responsible for spreading or speaking with customers or getting the building the awareness around the fact that there is a solution for this problem.
Barr Moses
And then our sales and customer success team are helping make sure that the customers that we work with are happy and can see a ton of value and can actually deliver reliable products for their organization so that they can further their organizations. So I do view this as a company wide effort. Every single function of the team and every single organization contributes to it. We have very clear sense of how we do that on every level.
Brett
And what about naming the category? So a lot of the founders listening in and the founders that we’ve had come on and just founders in general, they always talk about what’s the name of the category and how do you get the name right? I think Data Observability is such a perfect name. It’s not tied too closely to Monte Carlo so others can use it, which you of course need them to do if you want to create a category. So how did you get that name right and then how early in the journey did you coin that term?
Barr Moses
It’s a good question with funny story. So I totally agree with you and I think language matters a lot. And that is actually a lesson that I had from my time at GAINSITE. So when were at GAINSITE, I was fortunate to be part of the company and create the category of Customer Success. In the very early days of that, customers did or people did business mostly like a handshake or it was really hard to kind of understand or sort of quantify whether customers are happy and what that looks like. And really the whole concept of customer success didn’t exist at all. And early at Gainside, I remember there’s sort of question of like, what should the category be created? There was a lot of time and energy spent coming up with that name, customer success. And what was, I think, unique about customer success is like everybody wants customer success, right?
Barr Moses
Like you can’t disagree with customer success. Everybody wants that today. It’s really cool to see how that’s become popularized, for sure. And so what we try to do was bring words from solutions in other industries. So I mentioned that we look at solutions in DevOps and psychops and specifically observability and reliability are concepts that are very well understood in engineering. But if you ask a data person five years ago, they would definitely not be aware of that. Another change that has happened in the last couple of years is that data has moved into engineering. More and more engineering people are actually working on data. And so there are more people in Data who understand or sort of know what observability is in the concept of software engineering. And so in the early days, we sort of were like, okay, why don’t we try to take some of those concepts and bring them over?
Barr Moses
Another concept is sort of application downtime or infrastructure downtime as a way to describe the problem and bringing that over to data downtime. And so we coined that term, data downtime. Periods of time when your data is wrong or inaccurate or harmoniouse, and the solution being data observability. Now, in the early days, I actually had a couple of people who told me, that is such a terrible word. We’re never going to be able to pronounce it. It’s so hard to say. English is my second language. It’s still hard for me to pronounce observability. And so it was really controversial, and I was actually totally against the term for a while. But then listening to customers, they just kept repeating those words and they just kept using those words, and they started writing blogs using data observability, and they started writing updates on LinkedIn and Twitter and social media using data observability.
Barr Moses
So really it was not up to me, if you will. I just had to admit the reality, which is this is what the market and customers are telling us. So I wish I could take credit, but not at all, actually, to the contrary.
Brett
Yeah, and it’s crazy. If you’re just doing a Google search for data observability, there’s so much content. Of course, a lot of it leads back to your site, but there’s just a lot of other people talking about it. When other people are talking about it, do they have the same point of view and the same general definition around what it means? Or do you see that different groups define this category in a different way and this discipline in a different way?
Barr Moses
Yeah, I mean, look, it’s the early days of a category, right? Like a hot second ago, no one even knows what it is. I think today we’re at a place where any data team needs to have sort of core five things. Like you have your data warehouse, your data late, your bi, your ETL, and data observability. You just can’t do anything without having those five in place. I do think there are just like, what’s the definition of a data warehouse or a data lake? And now there’s a data lake house, right? So I think some of these definitions are in flux and change over time. And similarly with observability, it is early days, and so there’s different definitions in different places. But it’s really nice to see organizations like O’Reilly and Gartner and many others that have kind of strong credibility with our customers, sort of adopt some of these concepts and the definition of data observability that Monte Carlo sort of believes in.
Barr Moses
So I expect it to continue to change over time. But it’s early days and I see that.
Brett
G Two, has this established as a category, and I think you mentioned Gartner there. How important do you think analyst relations is to category creation?
Barr Moses
It’s a good question. When we started the company, a lot of the advice that I got around category creation from other folks who’ve done it was like, hey, working with analysts is something that takes time. And so it’s probably something that’s like way later in the company’s life and I was really surprised by how early we already had analysts reach out to us and ask us to help provide a perspective and for folks to speak with customers. And so I was surprised by how quickly analysts and folks were looking into making this sort of an official category. I think it was way earlier than I had expected and I attribute that to the fact that data observability has become so important in the last few years. Again, because data has become so important in the last few years. Like it’s not because we made it up and then it just became important.
Barr Moses
It’s because data is important, you need to make sure the data is accurate and so people actually need this thing. And I’ll be honest, I’m really pleased to see sort of analysts take note and engage and so I think it’s awesome. But I think for fellow founders and startups, I would say sometimes that’s something that comes a little bit later. I think for us it has come early and we’re happy with that, but that’s not always the case. I think category creation and startups in general is like a long term game and if you’re in it for the long term then that’s the most important.
Brett
Part makes a lot of sense. And if you reflect on your category creation efforts so far, and I promise this is the last category creation related question, but if you reflect on that journey, what would you say is like the number one or maybe two thing that you’ve learned along the way or something that you wish you had known before you embarked on this journey?
Barr Moses
There’s something, I know this sounds cliche, but there’s something that I have to keep reminding myself all the time, which is the answer lies with your customers. That is just always true and it’s very tempting to think that you know the answer or you have some gut around it or maybe your experiences should impact this. Our customers are just the True North, always and forever. And our first value is called Customer impact. And we started the company or when we sort of created the value, there were like four or five people and I came over from Gainsay, which is customer success and I was like, oh this is so cliche. It’s like we have a customer impact or customer success value. I can’t present that to the team, it’s not going to be great. And so I spoke with a team and the team was like, are you serious?
Barr Moses
Are you crazy? Nothing matters about customer impact. What are we here for? It’s not to deliver value and impact on our customers, it has to be the first value. And obviously they were totally right and that stayed our first value since speaking about our customers in this True North. For our team or product or brand, everything has to create sort of. Delight and happiness and value. But that is easy, I think, easy to forget if you don’t put that front and center. So, just a tactical example. In the early days, were shipping the early MVPs, and there was a feature that I was 100% sure would be very important, and that was because it was very important to me as a data leader prior to starting Monte Carlo. And I was so wrong. Nobody used that feature. Like, three and a half years later, nobody’s looking at that.
Barr Moses
And on the other hand, something that I totally didn’t think would work actually picked up. And we had customers saying, this is amazing. We want to get started as soon as possible. And I was so surprised. And so I think we’re very careful at Monte Carlo to not listen to anyone about the customer. Literally, no one else knows the answer. Nothing else matters. What’s most important is to get something out there as soon as possible, get feedback on it, and learn from that. And again, I think it can be really cliche to say, but there’s a very big difference between saying that and actually delivering on that every single day.
Brett
Yeah, because I hear a lot of companies that say, hey, we’re customer first, and things like that, or we’re pro customer. I don’t know any company that’s necessarily anti customer. And it seems like what happens a lot of times is people say that, and then it’s like a core value that just exists on a boardroom that no one ever goes in or just a core value that’s on the website, but it’s not real. But it sounds like you found a way to make that very real in the organization.
Barr Moses
Yeah, I would say it’s a constant journey on that or constant battle to keep the customer in mind. And I think of it as something that you have to continue actively doing on it, because people, I think, naturally drift to thinking about themselves or looking at other things and so continuously focusing on how do we keep the customers front and center? And so just a couple of examples. One, in your values, but actually speak and use your values. Right. Not just like put it somewhere. Second, it’s in your hiring. So when we hire people, both folks in management positions or not, we try to understand what motivates them. And if we understand that you care about making an impact by your customers, that is what we look for. But if you care about other things, monte Carlo might not be a great place for you.
Barr Moses
So we like to hire people who are obsessed about what can we do to make to bring value to customers. And we look for that very carefully in the hiring, and we screen for that pretty aggressively. Another example, in all of our written communications and all of our company purities and company goals, I repeat this so much like my team can’t hear it anymore. But the only thing that matters at Monte Carlo is working with as many customers as possible, making them as happy as possible. That’s it. So I think in your company communications and your company focus, there’s just a couple of examples. But literally everything that we do has to be around that. And so I look for ways to incorporate that. I mean, something that I personally really believe in is, like, physical sort of ways to remind this. So I have sticky notes for myself to keep, remind myself for specific things.
Barr Moses
But obviously, it’s very important that I personally set an example with this. And so I speak with many customers on an ongoing basis and not planning on stopping.
Brett
That amazing. Love that. And if we look at your day to day motivations and just what your day to day typically looks like, so for you, how do you stay motivated day to day? I think you’re four or five years into the company now, and that’s probably the point where a lot of founders, I think, may start to experience some level of burnout. So what’s that like for you now that you’re four or five years in? And what are you doing to stay motivated?
Barr Moses
Well, first, I love my job. It’s hard for me to consider this as a job. Honestly, I think I heard someone describe this. It’s kind of like playing your favorite game and just being on the field all the time. That’s really all I want to do. I want to be on the field with my team and play the game. That’s what I’m excited about. Honestly, I had very high expectations for this job before I started, and I’m pleased to say that it’s better than what I expected. I get so much energy and fulfillment and satisfaction for making an impact on people’s lives and the fact that we have something that actually helps customers, and they’ll email me and say, like, we love working with you all, and you guys have totally changed the way that we work. You can’t imagine doing our jobs without Monte Carlo.
Barr Moses
We love working with your team. That’s amazing, right? The ability to do that. And then I also get personal satisfaction from solving really difficult challenges and trying to do things that seem impossible together with amazing people. So another one of our values is called Beat the Odds, which is basically like, if we haven’t failed or heard, no, we probably didn’t try hard enough. And went as a team, and we pull each other together to overachieve. And at the end of the day, I learned so much and inspired every single day from my team members. I just consider it the greatest honor of my life to be able to work with them and to build this company. So, yeah, I’m honestly just really grateful that I get to do this every day. I wake up excited and can’t wait to do more of it.
Brett
That’s so cool. And you can tell in your voice how excited you are about this. So it’s always fun speaking with founders who have that level of enthusiasm.
Barr Moses
Still 100%.
Brett
Now, last question here for you. Let’s zoom out into the future. Three to five years from today. What’s that high level vision and what are you looking to achieve?
Barr Moses
Well, first of all, I hope we don’t lose that focus on our customers. As I mentioned, that’s probably the most important, I think maybe sort of zooming out a little bit. I do think that when we started the company, we’re looking or kind of thinking through sort of a problem that we think can be really meaningful and could allow us to have an opportunity to build a company that will make a long lasting impact on an industry, change an industry, and be a durable, strong company. And so that is definitely has been the goal from day one. What keeps us motivated and what we’re excited about in addition to for sure. And I think part of that is seeing delivering on this promise of data. So I think our mission at monte Carlo is to help accelerate the adoption of data by reducing what we call data downtime.
Barr Moses
And I’m very bullish on how we use data both in our personal lives and in organizations. So 3510 years down the line, I’m stoked to see how we’re going to use data. I hope the data that we use is actually accurate and reliable. I would be very sad if that’s not the case. And I’m very excited for monte crawler to play a huge part in that and to build the biggest company that we can.
Brett
Amazing. I love it. Barr we are up on time. I’d love to keep you here and ask you another 20 or 30 questions, but we do have to wrap here before we wrap, if people want to follow along with your journey as you continue to build and execute on this vision, where should they go?
Barr Moses
Welcome to reach out to me on LinkedIn barmoses or email me. Barr@montecarlodata.com yeah. Excited to connect with folks.
Brett
Awesome. Barr thank you so much for taking the time to share your story, talk about what you’re building, share lessons about your category creation journey and just everything that you’re building. This has been super fun. Interview and I wish you the best of luck in executing on this vision going forward.
Barr Moses
It’s been a lot of fun.
Brett
All right, take care. Our.
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