The following interview is a conversation we had with Ishveen Jolly, CEO and Co-Founder of OpenSponsorship, on our podcast Category Visionaries. You can view the full episode here: Over $5 Million Raised to Build the Future of Sports Influencer Marketing
Ishveen Jolly
Thanks for having me.
Brett
Yeah, no problem. So before we can talk about what you’re building, can we start with a quick summary of who you are and a bit more about your background?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, absolutely. Who am I? Ishveen Jolly grew up in England, which is also where I live now. Grew up a kind of student athlete. I suppose sports defined me, but had two Indian doctor parents, so was also made to study hard, which is a good thing. Going to Oxford, studied economics, passed forward a few years, a few different, like, went into consulting for a bit and then became a sports agent. And then I thought, well, if I’m going to p*** off my parents once, let me do it twice. And I moved to India to become a sports agent. And that’s kind of where I fell in love with sports marketing and sponsorship.
Brett
What was that like, being a sports agent? I think you’re the first sports agent that I’ve ever talked to and of course we’ve ever had on the podcast.
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, no, it was good. So there are two types of agents, I think a lot of people think. The traditional sense of an agent where you’re a lawyer and you do the contracts, and then I suppose, especially in other parts of the world where you’re playing for your country, I suppose then the typical sports agent is more marketing endorsements on the field. And that’s kind of where I fell in. And so I really enjoyed it. I REPT a couple of athletes, I worked with teams and events. And as I said, I think I just really enjoyed the art of marketing. And there’s that mastercard tagline priceless, like money can’t buy experiences. And in a weird way, like sponsorship for me is that money can buy, but feels like can’t buy experiences. And seeing kind of brands and CEOs interact with athletes and their favorite teams is just amazing.
Brett
Nice. I love that. Now let’s talk about CEOs that you admire. So is there a specific one that comes to mind? And if so, who is it and what do you admire about them?
Ishveen Jolly
I laugh because your prompt said it can’t be Elon Musk. I think we should probably dive into that. Is that because everyone says him? Or is that because you just don’t like him?
Brett
I love Elon Musk, but everyone was saying him or Jeff Bezos or like the obvious ones. So it’s like, come on, tell us something different here and let’s dig a little bit deeper than the obvious. Great successful entrepreneurs.
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah. So I’ll give you two, actually, if you don’t mind. So I’ll give you one which is Pinnamore Mainstream, which would be brian Cheskey C of Airbnb. And I’d say, I think one thing is, obviously I’m a two sided Marketplace, our company, and they’re very difficult to build and build in a way that is liked by everyone. Uber is a need, but a lot of people don’t like the brand or whatever else, but like Airbnb people. Absolutely. Well, I personally love the brand and love what it stands for, and I love the product, so that’s pretty amazing. So love him. And also if you hear his podcast and his journey when COVID happened and they had to do layoffs and how they did that, I feel like they’re pretty good culture ways and how they think, but they’re also innovative, which is just amazing and very product first.
Ishveen Jolly
So really admire him. And then actually first time, I suppose. This is being announced publicly, but we just added a new board member to our company, a friend of mine, a guy called Kartik, who ran a company called Connect. And so the fact I asked him to be on the board was because he’s someone who I know and I’ve seen his journey and I’ve always thought he was just a few years ahead of me. And also because the way he passes on information is it’s like bite size. It’s really easy to understand and implement and that’s not always easy to do with kind of CEOs you admire.
Brett
Super interesting. Do you have an opinion on Aria manual? Was Aria manual relevant in the sports aging world?
Ishveen Jolly
You know, it’s funny, I suppose when I started the company, I’ve always, probably till fall, always optimized or looked at tech founders because it’s almost like, oh, I know the other side, which is I don’t know everything about it, but it’s almost like I knew nothing about tech and marketplaces building supply, building demand, pricing models, fundraising. So in a way, and it’s actually an interesting thing to think about, which is like, okay, where we are at right now, I’m almost like, cool. I now need to think about how do I disrupt the next set of things within sports or compete with the bigger sports agencies? So maybe I will do some digging and let you know, Brett, what I think.
Brett
Okay, sounds good. And what about books? Is there a specific book that’s had a major impact on you? And this can be a traditional classic business book or just a personal book that’s really influenced how you view the world?
Ishveen Jolly
Good question. I’ll give you two again. So I think on a technical stance, probably a bit of a popular answer, and a Hard Thing about Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. And it feels a little bit like a manual, and sometimes a lot when you’re a Founder, you need someone to be like, yep, this is normal. And you’re like, oh, thank God. Yes, that’s normal. Like, s*** breaks. And that’s most of what you need, like a good book or a good you know, it kind of teaches you, but it also makes you realize that, like, you’re okay. So that does that. Like, I could try and read that every few years, but then I recently went on my own little journey of, we’ve been running this for a few years now, and keeping your own self motivation and COVID and remote work and everything else. And I read Soul for Happy by Mocha Duck, and I think that was really enlightening about how much you control your own happiness.
Ishveen Jolly
And I think for a Founder, like, your own mental health is probably one of the most important factors in the success of the company.
Brett
Yeah, totally agree. There are there any specific tactical tips that you have on how you ensure that you’re feeling mentally healthy? Like, do you meditate? Do you work out? Do you have any habits, specifically, that have been super helpful for you?
Ishveen Jolly
To be honest, all of it. I do work out a lot. I try and meditate. I take my weekends off mostly. If I don’t, then I know that I’m doing something wrong. I was actually thinking this the other day. I was like, I worked really late, and I was like, I’m doing something wrong if I have to come back to work after dinner. And so kind of trying to strike a bit of a work life balance, obviously, especially as a Founder, you even meet your friends. You’re probably talking about work you have drinks with around them. You’re probably talking about work or thinking about work. You’re thinking about work in the shower, but that shouldn’t mean that you’re glued to your laptop like something’s wrong if you can’t step away.
Brett
Yeah, absolutely agree. Now, let’s talk origin story. So I know you touched on it there a little bit with your personal journey, but what was so big about this opportunity with OpenSponsorship that you just said, let’s do it, let’s go all in and let’s start a company?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, so the sponsorship industry is $60 billion, but probably bigger now. I mean, it was five years ago when I started it, and Sports is 70% of that, so it’s a huge market. One, two it’s kind of like if you’re in the know, and if you on the outside, you have no clue how it works. And so when I moved to America in January 2013, for a few years, I was on the outside, and I had all this knowledge of how to do these deals, but I didn’t have connections. And I was a bit like, wait, this doesn’t really make sense. Why do I need connections in an industry that is so big that should just kind of work? And I thought, well, if I’m having this, then maybe everyone else is too. And so kind of came up with this idea of, like, essentially hence my Brian Jesse referenced, but, like, the airbnb of sports sponsorship, literally like a place where any brand can go and say, okay, cool, what do I want to sponsor?
Ishveen Jolly
Which athletes are available? Teams, events, music. It could be podcasts, whatever it may be over time. And then on the flip side, if I believe I have an asset worth selling, then why do I need to know someone? And we work with a lot of agents, and I do love the agents, but the point being is, why do I need that? Why can’t I just go somewhere and there be an efficient marketplace for me to sell my rights?
Brett
Makes sense. And being that you’re a marketplace, I’m sure that you face the challenge that all marketplaces face of the chicken and the egg problem. So, for you, what did you focus on first and then how did you balance that out?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, so we focused on the supply, the athletes first one, because we didn’t charge them. So I think it’s always easier to onboard the side that you don’t charge first. Secondly, because they have technically, they have the greater need. Right. Like, sponsorship is a source of funding and revenue for them. And it kind of makes sense, right? Like, hey, sign up for free. If we get you a deal, you pay as a commission. If we don’t, then you spent five minutes signing up to a website. And then we kind of waited till we had like 1000, and then at that point, were like, right, focus on the brands. And since that point, we’ve never really refocused on the supply unless we need it. And we’re at, I think, 16,000 athletes now.
Brett
Wow, that’s amazing. And how many athletes are in that target market, roughly, would you say?
Ishveen Jolly
Well, it’s a good question because obviously with the Nil, you’ve just got like 500,000. So, like half a million. But in the pro space, I mean, to give you a sense, like, we have about 80% of the NFL in the NBA. It’s hard to say with Olympians, because, as you could have said, there’s a lot of amateur and then there’s pro and whatever else. So gosh, I should know the answer to that, but I do.
Brett
Yeah, no worries. And you mentioned Nil. There is that there’s name, image, likeness or something like that, is that correct? That was like the NCAA ruling.
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, exactly. So, 2021 July, the court overruled and years long of tradition that student athletes couldn’t make money on their own name, image, likeness, and literally overnight, everyone was able to go out and kind of make money. Now, that doesn’t mean there is tons of money, but basically everyone is available for it.
Brett
Did you see a huge uptick then in athletes that were interested in signing up with OpenSponsorship or did that not really have an impact because it’s a different type of athlete?
Ishveen Jolly
No, very much so, athlete wise, definitely a bigger uptick. The challenge is the brand side, right? Because brands don’t want to get in trouble. What can they do? It’s still a little bit murky and there’s just so many athletes to choose from. So that’s kind of been our challenge, which is like, how do we get brands to spend money on the college space, which they do. But I’d still say the pro is bigger for us.
Brett
Makes sense.
Brett
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Brett
Now, looking on the site, I see that I can go and work with LeBron James. I can work with Jake Paul. You have Shaq, basically all the goats of sports there, it looks like, or a lot of them there. So can you just talk me through that? Let’s say that I have a new footwear brand and I want to work with LeBron James. What would that look like? What’s that journey like for me to engage with his team and work on a program or work on a campaign and then see how the campaign does? What does that all look like from start to finish?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, absolutely. So of our, I think, what, 16,000 athletes, about half are signed up by agent. So obviously a lot of the guys June mentioned, like you said, it’s their team, they’re agents that have signed them up. And then a lot of the smaller athletes, your lacrosse, your Olympians, et cetera, college athletes are signed up themselves. So you’d sign up, Brett, as Footwear company, you kind of go through our onboarding. We show you some recommendations based on your Instagram handle, which is pretty sick, a cool feature we just added. And then you’ve really got two options. Either you could turn around, you see Shaqs, a million dollars if you have it, you could send them a proposal, a bit like a job offer. But mostly what our brands tend to do is put up a campaign, a bit like a job posting, and say, hey, looking for athletes who don’t have a footwear deal already?
Ishveen Jolly
Our budget 510K, whatever, $500, whatever it may be. We’re looking for you to do social media or photo shoot, appearances, whatever, and then basically our athletes and agents will come and apply to you. So I’d really liken our functionality to.
Brett
A recruitment site that makes a lot of sense. And can you share any examples of brands that are using the platform today and then just describe any of those benefits that you’ve seen brands experience from influencer marketing with athletes?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve worked with everyone from a Walmart, and what they love is that their influencer marketing programs skew pretty female, as you can imagine, right? Like the original influencer, and especially the Walmart influencer is like a beauty blogger, a fashion blogger, that kind of thing. Mommy blogger. And so when they thought about appealing to their male demographic, they’re like, wait, we’re kind of missing hitting that demographic at all with our influencer program. And so they loved us fulfilling that gap. So that’s kind of the thing there, which is like the awareness and the reach to the male demographic. We do a lot of work with Fanjol, the betting company, and for them, a lot of the stuff is around, like, last minute. Like a lot of brands, especially today, you might come to the end of the quarter, you’ve got a bit of spare budget and you’re like, Cool, I need to spend it.
Ishveen Jolly
I want to spend it. There’s not many places where you can go in and literally do a deal within like five days and we do that for you. So I’d say that’s kind of key. And then content is huge. So gosh loads of levi’s, like loads of brands, smaller companies as well. For them, as I’m sure you know, UGC is expensive. Even if you’re making it internally, it’s expensive. It can often be off the mark. You need a lot of it, you want to be able to repurpose it. And so I’d say for a lot of brands, we’re like a cheap UGC channel, essentially. They get the athletes to create reels and then they can use them in their paid social ads and things like that.
Brett
Super interesting. And that take a note of sense. And I’m sure it varies from organization to organization and probably depends a lot on the size. But what team is typically working with you? Is that the influencer marketing team or what subset of marketing is that?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, great question. So the core one would be the influencer marketing team. If you have that’s who you’re working with. The beauty of sponsorship and athlete marketing is honestly, especially when I look at agencies, it could be the PR team, right? Like PR agencies are always looking for earned media. The best way to do it, get earned media if you have a story to tell. So I don’t know whether you’ve mentioned it in our background, but one of our investors is Serena Williams. It was the best way we got pressed last year, was talking about her as an investor. And so it made my PR agency’s job way easier than anything else I could have done. And so I think PR agencies benefit a lot. Affiliate is really interesting. That kind of the merge of affiliate and influencer is happening quite steadily. Affiliates getting a little bit of budget and whatever else.
Ishveen Jolly
And the micro influencer kind of sits quite nicely there. It could even be other channel, like social, paid social. But like we talked about, they need content to put into their ads and so they might come to us. So influencer is the typical one, but the beauty of what we do is and that’s kind of my ethos with sponsorship, is sponsorship used to sit in its silo. It has its own conferences, it has its own title, its own agencies, and it’s like, why athletes should be kind of present across the whole organization and definitely across the whole marketing mix.
Brett
And just because I finished the movie about Serena Williams and her sister, I have to dig a little deeper on that. So what was that like, getting Serena Williams as an investor? That must be incredibly exciting.
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, amazing. I mean, obviously, personally, for me, it’s amazing for my Co-Founder. He doesn’t usually get excited about investor calls or our investor base, but that was really special for him. And then we had a company off site and she zoomed in. This was kind of just post COVID and she zoomed in. And that’s so amazing for everyone in that room, right, to have her talk to them and motivate us all. So, yeah, she’s been epic.
Brett
Yeah, that’s amazing. Now, what’s the status quo look like? So if we just look at the competitive landscape, I would have to imagine there’s probably some disruptors trying to come in and apply technology to solve this. But what’s the status quo really look like? What’s being disrupted here?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, great question. So I’d say it’s interesting because similar to, I’d say probably like Airbnb, where they disrupt the hotel market at the top end, but you couldn’t really ever previously buy a room for like $50 anywhere. And so on the smaller athlete side, I’d say there was no status quo. That’s almost why influencer marketing has become the industry has become because sponsorship was the high end and influencer marketing was like the mid to low, and now they’ve obviously converged. So bottom end, no one that high end. Definitely we compete with agencies and existing relationships. So, hey, if I want to do a deal with LeBron James, I probably got enough money to know his agent directly. So that’s kind of our issue.
Brett
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And is there a North Star metric that you really look at? Is it number of athletes that are signed up? Is it the sponsorship money that passes through the platform? Is. Take a note, star metric. And are you able to share what that is or just any other metrics that demonstrate the growth that you’re seeing.
Ishveen Jolly
I would say that actually revenue as a startup, what we really care about is overall revenue. Now we break our revenue into two. So one is marketplace. So we take a commission on the deal from the athlete and then one AI transcription that we charge our brands for a membership. But I would say, Brett, like, look, we’ve gone through COVID, we’ve gone through budgets getting slashed, we’ve gone through are we in a recession, are we not in a recession? And so I think it’s really important to be super flexible with business model and pricing models. And even like when you work with enterprises, as you said, kind of different teams influencer marketing, allocates money very differently than true sponsorship salespeople. And so we really optimize for revenue. I mean, we have a plan within it, but we’re quite flexible as to how we see success so that we don’t lose out on deal flow.
Brett
Makes a lot of sense. And if we had to pick out one challenge, and I’m sure there’s been a number of challenges that you face, like all founders face, but if we had to pick one go to market challenge that you faced and overcame, what’s that challenge and how’d you overcome it?
Ishveen Jolly
You face challenges, like, all the time. I think it’s just the nature of running a startup. So I’d say growth generally just brings a lot of challenges. But I think hiring is definitely a tough one. Whether it’s, hey, we used to be in a really tough market to hire and salaries were way too high, or now where there’s a lot of people on the job market and I want to hire a lot, but we get warned to be vigilant about hiring and spending and then even kind of the culture fit of someone in a remote environment is different. The kind of personality that works in a remote environment is different to in person. So we have to think about changes there and then. Obviously, as you expand teams, right, engineering personalities are very different to sales personalities, but how do you create a unified culture?
Ishveen Jolly
So I feel like people obviously as an organization, people make everything go and run and successful. So that’s something I’m constantly thinking about to overcome it. I read, I seek a lot of advice, I speak to my manager team a lot, we do reviews, I lean on my HR manager. Hugely, constantly evolving.
Brett
That makes a lot of sense and can definitely see that. Now. Last question here for you. Let’s zoom out into the future. Three years from today, what’s the company look like?
Ishveen Jolly
I would love for us to raise another round, at least one by then, so that’s financials. I’d love for us to be bigger across the like, I love the teams that we have, like marketing and sales and account management. I just love every team to be bigger and everyone to have moved up globally. I would have loved for us to have cracked that. Added more than just athletes. We’re already working with teams, events, music, artists. Obviously we’re doing college esports. So just like loads more supply, more functionality. The product being super amazing, even more so. So I’d say kind of the same, but bigger and better.
Brett
Amazing. I love it. Well, we are up on time here, so we’re going to have to wrap before we do. If people want to follow along with your journey as you continue to build, where’s the best place for them to go?
Ishveen Jolly
Yeah, go to OpenSponsorship and check out the website. We’d love to have you there and kind of give us your feedback on whatever else. And then for me personally, LinkedIn is probably the best one.
Brett
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your story and talking about everything that you’re building. This is all super exciting and look forward to seeing you execute on this vision.
Ishveen Jolly
Thanks, brat.
Brett
All right, keep in touch.
Brett
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Brett
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Brett
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